Ben Messner - Adventures In Missions -

Leaving California

Sat, 19 May 2007 00:00:00 GMT

Over the last 3 years airports have become a second home to meI know I am well over 50 different airportsboth international and domesticand I could write a blog about opinions on each of them. The funny thing is that some days I get confused about where I am. I will be walking through San Francisco Airport and a smell will remind me of Port Elizabeth Airport in South Africa and then I will get a flash back and suddenly I am confused. Its not that I forget where I am as much as it is that I want to stay with the flashback and remember all there is to remember about the other place. This could also be because I think SFO is one of the worst airports in the world

Today I miss AfricaI miss our friends there and the kidsI miss the 3 weeks of Fall they have during this time of the year

Family Redefined

Sun, 21 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT

Please don't be to quick to label me a hypocrit when I, a man with no children of my own, make the following statement, "Families are too small these days."

I am a proud member of a family of 7, two parents and 4 siblings, and an active member of energetic extended family! I grew up next to a family with 13 children. I hug out with the youngest ones, so when the older ones would come to visit they would bring their massive families along as well. Their family reunions were larger than some mid-west towns I have travelled through.

So it may seem strange that I say that families are too small these days, but I mean it. Why? Because I was deeply challenged tonight as I listened to an incredible man from India share how he was the father to 300 children! He began inviting orphans into his home about four years ago, and now his family has grown to over 300. This man is not just a leader who tells stories to get money or make a point about how people should care about orphans. He know each of them by name, and he knows all the details of their story. He has suffered intense persecution on their behalf. He is their father.

It is a similar story to Pastor Walter in Swaziland who has become a father to hundreds of kids in a rural community that is devasted by drought and HIV/AIDS. When westerners design orphan programs we think systems, buildings, and finances. We have opinions about how many children should be assigned to each care giver, and if the children should be educated in the public school system or on our property. When my two pastor friends design an orphan program they open their homes to the any child with need, and make every sacrifice necessary to see that child is cared for.

So I say that families are too small these days. There are thousands of orphans in the world waiting for someone to show up, shut up, and love them...

Community Reflection

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT

I turned 27 yesterday. Janeen spent half the day plucking grey hairs out of my head and applying joint medication to my arthritic knees, ankles, and hands. I truly am old now! I was blessed with great gifts and many phone calls and messages. I felt remembered and that meant alot to me. Janeen spent alot of time to make me feel special because she knows how important my birthday is to me. I am so blessed by her. It was also a bonus to be able to see my family on my b-day, as that does not often happen.

I spent time reflecting on community again. Bottom line: I am a better person in community or at least because of community. I find that I am growing more these days, and I relate this to the presence of community in my life.

Community is providing 3 important needs in my life: inspiration for excellence; passion for growth, and accountibility for attitude and character. When I am around talented people who are setting apart time to be excellent at what they do and how they minister, that challenges me to do the same.

When I see others going after God and finding him and getting breakthrough it challenges me to do the same. I often allow myself to get lazy and lose focus, but in the context of a believing community this is challenged. It is a 2-way relationship, because I go deeper the community also benefits from this.

When I am around people who challenge me in areas of attitude and character, I am forced to make a decision: love me or love others. I have to analyze my humor, my critical nature, and even how I treat my wife. Community brings accountability. One can choose to hate this or embrace it! I don't like having to humble myself, but I know I need it to grow and be a better person.

Note: I don't think it is always necessary for those in the community to know they are doing this. It can happen just by proximity if you are intentional with your own process.

Healing Part #4: Me vs. God?

Thu, 4 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT

Day two of the Divine Healing class is complete and my mind and heart are a bit full at this point. I have not been in such an intense learning environment for several years. 8 hours of sitting, listening, and processing each day is slightly overwhelming.

So far we have examined a model for praying for people (including healing prayer); the affects of our worldview on our healing theology; the theological overview of the Kingdom of God, spiritual gifts, and healing; Jesus' use of the gifts and the commissioning of his disciples and us; healing in the Old and New Testaments; the C&MA history of healing (actually pretty interesting since the founder, A.B. Simpson, was a major pioneer in the current healing movement back around 1900); and finally, Spiritual Healing (next to come are Inner Healing & Emotional healing, demonic healing, and physical healing).

Here are a couple of things that I am now sure about:

There is no method to Jesus' model of healing that we can simply imitate and design the 3 steps to getting a person healed. He healed on sacred days. He healed entire crowds but then would only heal one in a crowd. He would lay hands on people and they would be healed, and then he would speak healing from miles away and the person would be healed. He would command sickness to leave. He would say your faith has made you well. He would say it was your friend's faith that made you well. He would give forgiveness for sins when people asked for physical healing. He pointed out once that a person's sickness was not related to their personal sin or the sin of his family, but he did not say this was always the case.
Sickness is a result of sin. Sin, pain, and death all entered at the time of the fall, and I will never experience full victory over these things here on earth.
I can study for the rest of my life about healing and I will never be able to give a definite answer about why some people get healed and others don't.

The issue of why people don't get healed is so big for me. Is it a faith issue? Is it a timing issue? Is it my "fault" or is it God's "fault" or is it the person's "fault that they did not get healed?

I believe that faith is central. I also believe that Galatians 5:6 applies, "that the only thing that matters is faith expressing itself in love." Praying for a sick person is an honor not to be taken lightly. You are standing in as a representation of Jesus or a channel to Jesus. Therefore, even if a person is not healed (for whatever reason), they had better leave feeling loved and valued by you or the prayer team. Bill Johnson says that the best environment for healing is an atmosphere of love.

We need to stop making people feel guilty if they are not healed. It may be that a person did not have the faith for their own healing, but even if that is true it is not our job to declare that to the person. Often, people feel pressured to get healed so the prayer team does not look stupid. The person praying puts the loss of the "no heal" on the shoulders of the sick person because he/she is insecure or unwilling to accept personal responsibility. We need to stop abusing sick people like this!

I pressed the professor on this issue, and he said something that I am struggling with. He basically said that when we pray for healing there is a spiritual battle that occurs. We will not experience full release from death, pain, and sickness prior to the return of Christ. If a person is not healed, it means that we lost the battle this time. (I can hear some of you already formulating your comments.)

I don't like this because it makes me uncomfortable. A few responses quickly come to mind. First, it makes me not want to pray for people because I don't want to be responsible for losing the battle if they are not healed. A possible answer: if you don't pray then they won't get healed anyway so the battle is still lost, just not by you (P.S. People do get healed outside of prayer times).

Second, it makes me wonder about the father not giving a stone when his child asks for bread passage. A "no heal" seems like a stone when we asked for bread. A possible answer: my understanding is not perfect and I see through a glass dimly. It is possible that a "no heal" is bread but we don't want to hear that.

Third, accepting personal responsibility for a person's healing (though God is the healer) makes me want to prepare and train for healing ministry. I want to have a pure walk. I want deep intimacy with the Father at all times. I want to stir up my faith so I believe in greater things. I want be ready to pray for a person holistically, so I can challenge all aspects of healing, not just the physical ones. A formidable enemy does not need to keep me from the battle, but it does mean I need to count the cost and prepare appropriately.

So though this statement makes me uncomfortable and I am not sure I accept it, I will keep it as part of my theology because I want to push myself to "man up" and be ready to pray. I also can live with the contradiction of accepting this and not accepting it at the same time and also still holding to a "God centered" theology of healing.

I believe there is a mystery to faith that we are not able to grasp in the here and now. As the professor says, "There is a tension between the here now and the not yet." I love that there is mystery that surrounds my God.

God desires for people to be healed. He has commanded that we pray for people's healing. Not everyone will be healed here on earth. It is imperative that we understand our role in the healing process: pray; pray in faith; pray "correctly"; persevere; praise. I come back to this: people are getting healed, and many in dramatic ways. I believe the stories I hear from trusted friends and therefore I focus on the encouragement of the healings rather than the discouragement of the "no heal." I would rather risk it all and see a healing every now and then (or often) than sit in a closet and not pray for those who are desperately asking for a touch.

Thanks for reading. Please comment. I could use some feedback

2006 in Review

Fri, 29 Dec 2006 00:00:00 GMT

Ok, this is not a long review...I will only share a few topics:

Heroes: My Parents- My mom survived Cancer and my dad supported her every day through the battle

Scariest Moment: Thinking J was preg in September

Favorite Books from 06: Power Healing by Wimber; The Natashas; Tipping Point

Favorite Gift: The Pipe my wife gave me

Most Fulfilling event: Helping make two of Janeen's life long dreams come true (seeing humpback whales and visiting India)

Countries Visited: India; South Africa; DR; Mexico; Swaziland

Favorite Picture: Me in my Boy Scout days...

Enough said

Healing Part #3: Experiential Misconceptions

Wed, 27 Dec 2006 00:00:00 GMT

I am trying to come to a place where I can both verbalize what I believe about healing and where I am implementing my healing theology. As I stated previously, I believe in healing both from a biblical perspective and from an experiential perspective. I would not have had to read the Bible to know that healing is something that happens in this world. Due to my Christian faith and my belief in the Bible, I believe that the majority of healing comes from the God I believe- Jesus Christ.

The reason I am trying to improve my biblical perspective and Christian teaching perspective on healing is that I think relying only on experiential healing theology can lead to some misconceptions about authentic healing.

First, if people see a person get healed when the elders are called up front to anoint and pray for a sick person, then they may believe that only elders can pray for healing or that God only hears the prayers of elders.

Second, healing prayer is just something we do in church. It is another item on an already too full agenda, usually stuck somewhere toward the end of the service on the 3rd week of the month.

Third, desire for a person to get healed is the same has having faith for a person to be healed. If this was the case then alot more of our family and friends would be healed because I am sure we have the greatest desire for those closest to us to be healed. My wife, Janeen, has been sick for 2 weeks now and I as was praying over her last night for healing I felt an incredible desire for her sickness to be lifted. This may sound bad, and I share it only to make my point, but the desire I had for her synus infection to be lifted matched the desire I had in India for a leper to be healed. Why? Because Janeen matters more to me than anyone in the world and to see her in ongoing pain destroys me.

Fourth, healing prayer is a gamble. Just like in Vegas, more often than not the person is not healed. Prayer is done only out of obedience and has not affect on the outcome. It is up to God only.

Fifth, we are commanded in the Bible to pray for the sick (at least this is what I believe and what most Christians believe. It is the implementation of healing theology that causes conflict not the practice of believing that God commanded us to pray for the sick), so I pray because I have to, and not because I expect something to happen. This type of praying leads to the prayer that is offered out of a place of insecurity and not wanting to sound stupid, "Lord, if it is your will..." The goal of this prayer is to let everyone listening know that you tried your best but obviously God did not want to heal this person. The problem is that obedience does not equal faith.

I am sure the list could go on for quite some time, but I will close with just a few more thoughts on the fifth misconception. I do not believe that to pray a simple prayer is always enough. I have seen a simple prayer work, so please do not think I am saying we must pray long and extravagent prayers littered with word-of-the-day vocabulary. I am saying that I believe it is important for us to do the following when praying for the sick:

1. Shut up and wait on God. Francis McNutt says that he usually starts out healing prayer with a time of worship. I think this is a great idea...invite the presence of God.

2. Use the ministry model: ask what the person needs prayer for and ask if there is anything in their life that may keep God from working or answering prayer; invite the Holy Spirit; pray; interview the person and ask them if they are hearing, feeling, or sensing anything; pray again; interview again; pray...finish when you feel like the time is over. Again, McNutt says he sees the majority of healings come after 30 minutes of prayer. I have heard stories of healing prayer being answered only after 2 months of weekly 2 hour prayer sessions over a person.

3. Be read for something other than physical healing to come up, such as a need for deliverence or inner healing.

4. Expect something to happen. Allow your faith to be stirred up as you pray.

Somebody should write "Healing for Dummies" but until that time this one will have to do...

Healing Part #2: The Issue of Faith

Fri, 22 Dec 2006 00:00:00 GMT

I grew up in a culture of faith but I cannot remember much about healing. The church I attended for several years, along with my family, was a very legalistic and conservative church but at the same time it was charasmatic. As the Spirit moved people would get express themselves in certain ways; they would run the aisles praising God and when it was time to really pray, everyone would get on their knees and cry out! We sang hymns but there was a bass guitar and trombone in the band...

It was during my college years that I entered into a "healing culture." I started learning about inner healing and spiritual gifts. I was blown away by Henry Blackaby's book, "Experiencing God." God was still active in the world and he was asking me to join him in what he was already doing...that idea changed my life.

So several of my formative spiritual years occured at college as I was learning and experiencing healing, yet I did not really study healing or form a theology of healing. I focused much more on inner healing than physical healing. When it came to physical healing, I saw what I saw and took it for fact. People get sick or have diseases. You pray for them. Sometimes they get healed and sometimes they don't. This led me to develop a form of thinking that God does heal but you never know when and there is nothing we can do, besides praying, to influence the healing process.

Now that I am studing healing and trying to form a "theology" of healing, I am beginning to do what every good student does: struggle with the issue so that I can own it and verbalize it in my own words and then apply it. The main point of struggle right now is the aspect of faith when it comes to healing. (At this point I would like to say that this is my second version of this same blog because the first one was lost when my battery died, and I am re-writing this but in a very different way...weird?)

Hebrews says, "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." As I pray for people I do hope for a healing and I do see what they could be like if they were healed, but how do I become sure and certain? Phrases like, "Let faith arise" or "Stir up the faith that is within you" keep floating through my head, but what do they mean and how does one do them?

Here is a recent example of stirring up faith, but let me say upfront that I am not sure where the initial faith originated. I was with a team in a slum somewhere in India and we were praying for believers in their homes. Each person would inevitably ask us to pray for healing for either themself or for someone else in the home with them. I was in the process of a Wimber book on healing, so I was excited to pray but I could tell the team was a bit hesitant. As we went from house to house and people started receiving our prayer and being encouraged and it appeared that one person was possibly touched of a headache type of condition, it felt like faith was being stirred up in our group. And then suddenly a boy with a cough was healed (by healed I mean the cough left...did he cough the next day? I don't know, but he was in healed for that moment at least and if he did cough the next day, then at least he had one day without the cough but it does make me ask why healings sometimes don't last?). After this boy it was like we could not be held back from praying...faith was stirred up.

I know that for me questions like, "Why doesn't God heal all the time?" or "Why does God only seem to heal other people, but he does not heal me or people related to me? or "How do I know if people are faking the healing?" really can affect my faith when it comes to praying for a person. I remember it used to seem like the only people who were ever healed when I prayed were people who had headaches. What is that about?

As I saw people begin to get healed during times that I prayed it began to raise an expectancy for the healing and to stir up faith. Yet, I am still not batting 100% in the healing process...far from it. A person asked me in an email how I really knew the motorcycle lady and heart condition lady were healed. I have decided that I will do my best to follow up on these stories. I think confirming these healings will help my faith grow. I feel like it is a good policy to follow up on people who get healed when we pray for them.

So this is, as usual, a bit of a ramble, but basically I am trying to figure out the role of faith in praying for a sick person. Any help?

Healing is the word for the day

Mon, 18 Dec 2006 00:00:00 GMT

Since I am taking the class with some friends, there has been a fair amount of discussion surrounding the topic of Healing. I am going to blog some of my thoughts about this topic over the next few weeks. For starters I want to lay out my own personal encounters with healing.

I prayed for a few people that were healed of headaches.

I prayed several times for a particular person and seen healing or a "lifting" of the sickness or pain the majority of the time. It was as if I had authority related to that person's sickness.

I prayed for a lady with a spinal and back condition caused by a severe motorcycle accident. She also was experiencing an inability to write new material for her books since the accident. I, along with a group of people, prayed for the lady and the next day she danced in front of the church.

I, along with Janeen, prayed for a lady in South Africa who had a heart condition and she was healed.

I also am surrounded by a healing culture of sorts. It is not uncommon to hear stories of people being healed from any sort of sickness or disease. Nor is it uncommon for people to not be healed, to even die, or for them to be healed through medical procedures or through medicine.

After reading 3 of the books I am able to say that I believe this:

Faith must be present somewhere for healing to occur
We are commanded to pray for healing
There is no system to how people are healedanything goes; short prayers or long prayers, lay on hands or don't touch the person, the sick person be in the room or not, believer or not may not matter
Physical healing and inner healing are often related

If anyone wants to share a story of healing or their personal experience please feel free to leave a comment.

Do we really have to care about the World?

Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:00:00 GMT

I gave out this sheet of statistics in a church service I recently talked in...

Global Awareness

Orphans---sex trade---poverty---hunger---tb

Sex Trade- The numbers are staggering, but all to easy to ignoreunless one of the women or children in that number was related to you! More than 27,000,000 people in the world are held in slavery around the world, millions of these are used for sex.

Orphans- By 2010, the number of orphans will reach 42 million. Twenty million of these children - or almost 6 percent of all children in Africa -will be orphaned due to AIDS. By this same year more than 10% of the population in Swaziland will be orphans. There are already 65,000,000 orphans in Asia.

HIV/AIDS- 2,000,000 died of AIDS related issues in 2005 while another 2,500,000 contracted the disease in sub-Saharan Africa. 24,500,000 live with HIV/AIDS in Sub-Saharan Africa alone.

TB - According to the World Health Organization, TB infection is currently spreading at the rate of one person per second. The disease kills more young people and adults than any other infectious disease and is the world's biggest killer of women. Each year, an estimated eight million to 10 million people contract the disease and about two million people die from it. 33% of the world's population carry the TB bacteria in some form. Many of these people live in SE Asia or Africa.

Hunger/Poverty - More than 2,900,000,000 people worldwide live make less than $3.00 a day. 15,000,000 children die every year from hunger related issues or starvation. One out of every eight children under the age of twelve in the U.S. goes to bed hungry every night. For the price of 1 certain US missile, a school full of hungry children could be fed daily for 5 years. 33% of the world is suffering from starvation. The 358 richest people in the world have more money than the combined annual income of 45% of the world.

My question is: do we really have to care about the problems of the world? I know we face some of these problems here in the USA, but is it a biblical mandate to be globally aware? I preach it and I try to live it, but today I was processing this question...

And if so, will it only be our generation and the ones to follow who are accountable due to the fact that we are now live in shrunken world (internet, advanced communication, and high speed air travel). You can be anywhere in 24 hours or less. You can communicate with anyone almost anywhere...

Did we always know about this stuff? Does increased knowledge bring increased accountability? Is Matthew 25 a global passage or is everyone only responsible for their own community?

Just processing...

Another Ramble on Community

Sun, 22 Oct 2006 00:00:00 GMT

As I was journaling this morning, I started writing about some differences in the idea of community that people have (or at least in what I think). I can see how the local church can be a community. I think God knew that we would need fellow believers to help us live (work out) our faith. Solitude is a discipline that we should all incorporate into our lives on occasion, but the discipline of community is something we should earnestly seek to live out daily.

Life is hard! I don't believe that we will ever discover a cure for PAIN or loss in life. A church community that has strong vision, a healthy balance of inward and outward focus, and desire to see ALL of the spiritual gifts active within their midst will be a community that will grow and naturally attract pre-Christians and Christians alike. Problem: once these church communities grow they lose intimacy and may stray from what caused the growth. Answer: sub-communities (more than cell groups that meet for fellowship, more like functioning sub-churches within the context of a larger church). I actually am not sure what I think about that, but for those that have said "my church is my community" then this is the way I can see that to be true.

A few people shared that friends and family are their community. I agree that family and friends can be community to one another, but only when they live in some kind of close proximity. I believe that gathering is a core value of community, and if you cannot often gather then you are more of an acquaintance than a community. Showing up for a baptism is great but showing up whenever there is a crisis, a hard day, or something to celebrate is closer to real community in my mind. I don't think that for family and friends to be community that they have to be believers. In fact, being a Christian is not a requirement for community.

I can also see that if you have chosen to live within your culture of origin (the USA in this case), that as you live out life there doing what it takes to live at the level you have chosen to live at and following Christ as he leads you each day; committing to a group of believers for support can be community. You gather outside of church meetings for fellowship, prayer, and encouragement. The group may even choose to help meet one another's needs as they arise. The group may choose to open themselves people outside their fellowship, including pre-Christians, begin to fellowship with them, pray for them, encourage them, and help meet their needs as well. In the absence of a healthy local church that community could be called church (wink wink). IF you feel the obligation to be a part of local church- healthy or not- then this group could just be an extension of that church.

I think there is a difference between being a community and being community to one another. I think the same could be said for church. There is a difference between being a church and being church for one another. I believe that a community and church can be the same thing if they operate not as a community or a church but instead they community and church to one another.

I think J and I would make some serious sacrifices to be a part of a community that answered a call together that was international in nature in order to become what one person could not be on his or her own.In my mindthis is a missional community.Thousands ofindividuals through out history have answered a call to live missionally, andmany of thesepeople have accomplished great things for God. Their biographies could fillseveral shelvesof a library, and they inspire mebeyond words. Yet, I would rather launchout aspart of amissional community of believer with the intention towork out my faithwith the help of a body of radical people.

I think that I feelthis way because there is still asense thatJ and I are supposed tohave an international focus. I want to launch with a community thatis like a swinging sword that protects in members but also stands in the gap for the orphan, widow, leper,sex slave, and poor. I want to be part of a move of God that is spiritual innature, and I know that alone I am too weak to do this. I know that Ido not have all the gifts that I need to do this alone. Ialso believe that ahealthy community, the body of Christ manifested to the world that prophecies peace and love to those around it,will be more inviting than a solitary person...

Okay, now I am getting lost in my thoughts...I thought I had a point to make when I started and now I am confused again.

Help?

Community Continued

Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:00:00 GMT

A few weeks ago I was in Boulder, Colorado, standing in a shop on Pearl St. with Janeen staring at some beautiful photographs taken by Tim Brown. I realized that I was not able to enjoy Brown's artwork, not because of style or topic, but because I felt like enjoying the photographs would mean aquiring them. To aquire the photographs would mean a few thing: having a place to put the photographs; having a job to afford not only the photographs but also the place to put them; being committed to living in a place so I can could the job that was paying for these things; and being committed to the people and events of that place in order for it to be life giving!

Thankfully, my amazing wife Janeen, was able to give me a quick lesson in enjoying things for what they are and what they represent in the moment. Yet, as I left the store and walked down to the nearest Starbucks (sometimes coffee and the right environment help me process deep thoughts...or maybe I say that to justify spending $2.70 on a grande vanilla steamer) a question kept pressing into my mind: would living in community make the above process more doable? If a there is a group of people who can share the "burden" of the decision and share the cost of the lifestyle, would that make it easier to enjoy life?

I believe an incredibly important benefit of healthy community is this: It helps an individual and group receive, process, and apply hard truth. Here are two examples.

First, I went to see the documentary called "An Inconvinent Truth" and I thought it was fairly overwhelming. I know there is a bunch of overly extreme theory about Global Warming, which causes many to write off the concept all together, but I felt like God clearly said to me during the movie, "Ben, you need to attach an enviromental challenge to every Christian initiative. Ignoring the environment now and only focusing on ministry like church planting will allow for millions of children to become orphans in the near future that could have been prevented." My desire was to just junk the challenge given by Gore because it was too heavy. I know I would have done this very thing if I was still the shallow single guy I used to be early on in college. The difference now: being in community with Janeen and being able to process this type of heavy stuff together, and make decisions together about how we should adjust our life accordingly to the Hard Truth!

Community enabled me to receive, process, and apply the Hard Truth that I would have just ignored outside of community. The community Janeen and I have is just an example. The same principle applies to a larger gathering of people. There are external realities or truths that are too overwhelming to respond to as an individual, but in the context of a healthy community something can be done about the Hard Truth. HIV/AIDS in Africa...World wide Poverty...Global Sex Trade...Hitler's Holocaust...120,000 Orphans in Swaziland by 2010...the overlooked urban poor of America...a dying America church...Corruption...Injustice...As an individual, everything within me wants run away from all of this stuff, but together with a community something shifts. I gain the courage to do something about these things, to press into extended prayer and fasting, to sacrifice and count the cost of responding, to release my desire for comfort and control and choose to live my life for something greater than myself. Community also gives me a team of people to serve and minister with that is much more talented, gifted, and equipped than I would be as an individual.

Second, I struggled with intense depression for several years in high school and college. I don't think I was really aware of the fact that it was depression and that something could be done about it until my junior year of college at Nyack. I was so tired of my mood swings, my anxiety, my thoughts of suicide, my insecurity in my relationship with Janeen (we were early in our dating relationship at the time). I was high and low in the same day. I would be down for 2 weeks at a time. The answer for me was battling the depression spiritually- with the committed help of some amazing community (shout out to Jim, Janeen, Eric, Z, Shane, and Matt here).

Alone I could not face the depression and its roots! I needed those in my community to call out the issue and help me see the attack for what it was. I needed my community to walk with me through facing these roots, to at times force me to deal with them, to hold me when I fell back and was so afraid of myself that I could not be alone. I needed confronted when I was wrong and praised when I was winning the battle. I needed my community to celebrate the small victories with me. Just as community can help one receive, process, and apply Hard Truth that is external, I needed my community to help receive, process, and apply Hard Truth that was internal. I praise God for the people he put in my life in this season because I have walked in victory ever since the end of those dark days.

Depression is just one example of an internal struggle. Add to the list: greed...materialism...lust...pride...fear...eating disorders...abuse...all kinds of pain inflicted by people in life...character...and so on. Just as it is hard for an individual to allow community to help them deal with the Truth, it is also hard for the community to commit to those in their midst who need inner healing and freedom! Both parties must choose this!

So these are my thoughts for tonight. Thank you to all who have walked with me in life thus far and have allowed me to walk with you. Please feel free to comment on this or challenge it or share stories or whatever. I always want this to be a place for people to share their thoughts and ideas with one another.

Cheers!

A new thought

Tue, 17 Oct 2006 00:00:00 GMT

I hope no one takes this as me thinking too much of myself...if you really know me, then you will know that I spend about 4.2 seconds a day on my physical appearance. I just thought it would be fun to take a survey of my "best" look...so here are the options:

The Hippy Look

Hippy Look Part 2

The Blog is Back! (Maybe)

Mon, 16 Oct 2006 00:00:00 GMT

"So, what happened to the blog?" is a question I was forced to answer 692 times over the last 4 months. The simple answer: I am a victim of my own issues! I did not want to be bound to the blog, but at the end I was putting pressure on myself to produce something good for all of the fans. I was done on church stuff (though I did attend an institutional church today with several friends), and I when I dove back in I wanted to have a theme rather than just a single thought for each day. That is just not my style

I think I may have a themeCommunity! Oh, that joyous tag word that so many people throw around but rarely experience or even understand (which is why they may not experience it if they don't understand it). I definitely don't understand everything about community, but I am at the point where I am ready to sacrifice a lot to be an active member of a community. I would quit my job and move almost anywhere if God allowed it!

To kick off the dialogue I would like to break down 3 types of community that exist in my mind (a scary place to be by the way). There are two common factors necessary for any type of community to exist. The common factors involve 1) a group of people, and 2) a certain level of commitment from each member of the group

First type of community: a group of people who are committed to "doing life" together but not necessarily living together. This group would use the phrase, "lets be community for one another." This style could take the form of a life group, but it cannot be your normal small group where people just show up and put in time. This style of community goes beyond gathering for study or fellowship. These people are fiercely committed to one another, spending time together outside of scheduled group times, supporting one another in hard times, and celebrating each others successes. In this style of community there could be a scheduled end time and it may be built around a strong leader or couple. A philosophy of this group is, "Our community forms the ministry rather than our ministry forming the community."

Second, a group of people who commit to one another around a common ministry or purpose (possibly a sports team) for certain amount of time. This group of people will may or may not live together but the purpose of their gathering is support, healing, inspiration, and fellowship. The ministry or individual callings will always trump the concept of being together. There may or may not be a leader being the constant in this community that keeps the schedules and plans times together. A philosophy of this group is "Our ministry forms our community (we join because of a common, pre-established task rather than our community forming the ministry)."

Third, a group of people who live together in order to accomplish a common mission. This style of community is based around allowing an organic thing of God to emerge from within their fellowship and together they follow that calling. This community may actually be a ministry tool in itself. You invite people into your community to experience God through you modeling Christ in your relationships. This community may be labeled "missional" in nature. There is definitely a focus on ministry, and it is both corporate and individual, but at the end of the day the team ministry will likely trump the individual ministry. It is likely this community will operate from a common pot in regards to finances. The philosophy of this group is we are together for ministry and for each other and our ministry will flow from being together.

Janeen and I are again exploring possible involvement in some type of community. So I have a few questions for you: what do you think of these 3 models; do you have other models; any general thoughts on community you would like to share?

I look forward to hearing from you!

Insight gained due to separation from my Bride

Mon, 15 May 2006 00:00:00 GMT

Tonight I am writing from a rural community just south of Manzini, Swaziland. I left for Africa on Thursday morning, and finally today I was able to connect to the internet and download my email. My mission has lasted barely four days at this point, but I feel like there is so much welling up within me that I want to share with you.

I commit to returning to the issues brought up in the last few blogs in the near future. There are several questions posed by readers that I am trying to process. Please continue to search for yourself, and feel free to comment on those blogs at any time. Has anyone gained any insight from the question about the New Testament search for church? Please post your findings on the blog.

I hate being away from Janeen (that is my wife in case you don't know). I especially am struggling with this separation since I am in a place that means so much to both of us. Every place I go and every person I encounter is something/one we share in common, and these things serve as constant reminders that we are not together. Please know that we both felt like God was leading her to stay and me to go so that is why we are not both in Swaziland.

Rabbit Trail: I love traveling with Janeen and hope that I will stick to my commitment to travel together as often as possible. We are a team. We are partners. We compliment the gifts and talents of each other so well. I do not want to become one of those ministry guys that always goes on these world wide trips or even domestic trips without his wife because it is part of his ministry or job and she has "her own things that tie her down." I am not the same person when I travel alone and I need direction about the future in regards to my travel schedule.

Insight #1

I said good bye to Janeen in the airport lobby on Thursday morning. I had felt the ache of being separated from her for the next 20 days settling in for the previous two days, but as we hugged for a final time my heart began breaking. I could see the pain in her eyes as well. I made it through security and all the way to my gate before I broke down and began weeping. I had not cried in so long, and the tears flowing down my face almost felt strange. Our relationship is full of emotion and feeling, but it had been a long time since I had experienced this type of heart ache.

As I sat on the floor with my head covered I heard the Lord saying to me, "Have you ever cried about being separated from my Bride like this? Do you know that I cry over the Bride as it is right now?" I cried out to God to protect and love on my bride and to give me the heart to love and join with his Bride, the Bride. It was a powerful moment, and I felt my heart continue to break for both Janeen and the body of Christ.

Friends, I challenge you to let your heart break for the Bride no matter where you are at in your church journey. God loves the bride and designed it so that the body of Christ would come together and make each other better, all for his glory. We need to find a way to do this.

Insight #2

I spoke with Janeen on the phone tonight for 3 minutes and 35 seconds. It cost me $4.00, but it was worth every penny. I said to Janeen in an email after the phone call that it was just "a taste of something I wanted more of...to hear your voice, know your heart, and be known by you." Once again the Lord is screaming out spiritual connections, and I want to stay open to them.

I was taught in a spiritual formation course that we are to know and be known by God and strive to make him known. The core of the Christian life is intimacy with God, and a key role of the bride/church is spur one another to go deeper in this intimate relationship and to bring others into relationship with God through a message that is full of this intimacy. The overflow of our hearts, if you will.

I sacrificed financially to connect with my bride tonight for just a few short minutes. I felt like God was asking me if I was willing to sacrifice to connect with his Bride as he longs for me to do so. Am I ready to make church (or at least his Bride) central in my faith? I am leaning toward yes.

So that is where I am at tonight. It's Sunday night. Africa went to bed hours ago and will be up soon. Be encouraged and journey on!

What someone else wrote...

Tue, 9 May 2006 00:00:00 GMT

Someone referred this blog to me today, and I really liked the content and writing style of several entries. I stumbled across this and wanted to share it with you. I hope you do not feel like this cheating on my part! The link to the blog is below and I understand if you choose to read this blog rather than mine from now. Remember, my first entry ever was spent trying to convince everyone to read Seth Barne's blog and not mine

"Four Things That I Believe Will Change Church If We Don't Like What It Is:"

1. A Soft Heart and Attitude*

2. Prayer**

3. Staying Involved***

4. Understanding how God has grown and changed the Church throughout history****

* Understanding our identity in Christ. Nothing is more important for us than our own relationship with Jesus. It is what we, personally, are responsible for. Without this we can't do anything. Do we really believe this? Does it show in the priority and time we give it? Out of that time with Him will come an understanding of who we are and how He sees and feels about us - that is powerful. Intimacy with Jesus leads to actively forgiving those who have hurt us and others, and not allowing for a critical attitude or conversations enables us to receive Jesus' heart for the Church and for those who don't know Him. Are we broken with sadness or demanding about change?

** Prayer. There is no more powerful change agent that God has given us. We so often talk about what we want to see changed rather than pray for it to be. Ultimately He will change it, not us.

*** Being committed to community. You can't change something you aren't apart of. And we can't be changed without being apart of something, too! What if some of what we've seen is our own interpretation and we haven't heard the other side of the story? That's dangerous. We influence through relationship. It's hard to speak into something when we feel hurt - it's so much easier to withdraw - but staying involved and being honest about our hurt, with the right attitude, is how God creates change-agents. Divorce won't change the quality of a marriage.

**** Knowing the history of The Church. This enables us to be apart of the bigger picture of what God is doing globally and has done throughout history. Big Picture Perspective reminds us of the sovereignty and power of God and cautions us from snap judgments or uniformed opinions.

http://wallpaperofmymind.typepad.com/

The issues with managing a blog...it could just be me

Tue, 9 May 2006 00:00:00 GMT

I am sad tonight. I leave for Africa in 36 hours (yet another 18 hour flight and with the six hour time change I lose an entire day of my life on a plane), and though I believe in my mission and cannot wait to be reunited with friends and the Swazi people I still am sad. Maybe a better way to say it is that I have a heavy heart.

Why? My leaving for Africa means leaving my lovely wife for 19 days. I hate being apart from her. Janeen and I understand times of separation like this to be an aspect of the calling on our lives to love broken people. We committed on our wedding day to "be the change we long to see happen in the world." We knew that commitment would take sacrifice.

My mind wondered to this blog throughout the day. Even as I was running tonight I found myself thinking about the blog (actually I had to slow to a fast walk so that I could actually hear myself think because my labored breathing was so loud). I realized that I was trying to figure out what this whole blog is about. Why are people reading it? How is it affecting people? Is anyone really benefiting or progressing in their church journey because of it?

I know several are reading my ramblings, which I appreciate for sure. It makes me feel known. I also know that there are several processing the material I post as well as the material in the comment section. Due to the interest of Tom and Dannyboy, my own journey has crossed paths with the Catholic Church, which has led to many questions, some about my material but many more about how I journey, what is a journey/pilgrimage, how I think, the theologies/philosophies of other churches or movements, church history, and more. I feel that I have been exposed, and all my faults and erroneous ways are being laid out for all to see. Yet, I believe this what makes this blog real, and I hope that this process is helping you journey. (I would love to hear about it if this is the case.)

I have thoughts about what some of you may be thinking (which is weird since I don't exactly know who YOU are or really what you are THINKING), but rather than guess out loud I would like for you to comment about your journey over the last month and how you feel about the direction this blog is taking. I am very open to your thoughts, and I am going to ask that you do not comment on other people's comments for this blog only. If you would like to answer any of the questions listed above, please feel free to do that as well.

Thanks friends and fellow journeymen that I do not even know. I believe to truly work through all the junk/obstacles involved in the church journey one must be willing to sacrifice. The church is part of our calling and to live out this calling there will be sacrifice just as there is sacrifice for Janeen and I to live out our calling. I exhort you to continue making that sacrifice.

My next post will likely come from Africa. I appreciate your prayers.

Light at the end of the tunnel?

Mon, 8 May 2006 00:00:00 GMT

Hindsight: As the saying goes, "When the cat is away the mice will play." My most recent blog was posted to simply inform everyone that I was busy; therefore, I did not anticipate much comment. Yet, there are twenty-five comments that are full of some serious debate. Check it out! If this is your first time checking out this blog, you will benefit from a review of the first 8 blogs posted on this site as well.

New Material: I disdain religion. Cotton Mather wrote, "Religion gave birth to prosperity, and the daughter destroyed the mother." Even Martin Luther King Jr. struggled with religion as Taylor Branch pointed out about him in his book Parting the Waters, "He (MLK Jr.) could not ignore the possibility that any religion vague and secular enough to satisfy him would be too mushy to sustain a church." Religion of any form will not sustain true church.

As I walk out my church journey I am longing to keep my discourse focused on relationship with God and relationship with the body. Please understand that I do not disdain the true meaning of religion (the belief in God), but rather I disdain the practice of beliefs, systems, and structures that lack authentic relationship with God and lack life or relevance.

The comment section of this blog is a place for the reader to interact with and respond to the material I post, and it is also a place for you to share your own perspectives, thoughts, or beliefs on church with one anther. My original intent in this blog was to launch a querulous monologue about all my frustrations with the institution of church. A combination of God's humor and the encouragement of those commenting has led me to choose a much deeper path for this blog.

Until the time of Christ the only model of ecclesia is that of the Israel nation. The Old Testament is the story of God's involvement with his chosen nation. After the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, the Gospel was then taken beyond the Jewish people to the Gentiles. I believe it to be an accurate statement that all of our models of church are based upon models we believe to be found in the New Testament (except for that of messianic Judaism which has several Old Testament elements as well).

Christianity spread rapidly due to the persecution of the early believers in Jerusalem. There was very little time to develop detailed organizations prior to the displacement, which is probably a healthy thing. The New Testament is not without principles, guidelines, and commandments that relate to the assembly of believers though.

Here is my question, "If we forget the last two thousand years and only use the Bible as our source for this search for true church, what will we end up with?" Am I wrong to say that if the form of church that you hold to is truly a model that God would approve of for his bride, then it will remain after it is tested by a thorough walk through the Scriptures? Will this study lead us to say there should only be one church? If so, will that same study confirm the Catholic Church to be that one church? How much does church history affect the beliefs that we hold about church?

The mission statement of the church that I attended today was to "Encounter God through genuine worship and relevant application of his Word." My current thesis is that true church can happen anytime two or three (or more) are gathered in the name of Jesus with the purpose of encountering God in order to bring glory to Him. I believe that important elements of church are proclamation of the Scripture (preaching or teaching, but hopefully a mixture of both), passionate and genuine Worship (life worship, singing, creative expression, using our gifts to glorify God, entering the real presence of God through his Holy Spirit, communion, tithing, meeting the needs of those in our midst), and the fellowship of the body (intentional and accountable community).

I know there are other important elements, guidelines, mandates, commandments, and suggestions found in the Bible. I am currently reading through the entire New Testament to rediscover these very things. I ask that you join with me and put your findings in the comment section of this blog and the upcoming ones. I want to answer the questions I ask in paragraph above.

Jesus rose from the dead and met back up with his eleven disciples and other close followers to chill for awhile. He gave them two commandments and one prophetic revelation. First, Jesus told them to not leave Jerusalem until they received the gift of his Father, which was the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4-5). Second, Jesus told them to go and make disciples of all nations and baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and to teach them all that he had commanded them (Matthew 28). Then Jesus prophesied that they would receive power from the Holy Spirit and be his witnesses to the ends of the earth (Acts 1:8).

The apostles, along with the about 120 other followers of Jesus, took these commandments seriously and waited in Jerusalem. Fifty days after the Passover Sabbath the Holy Spirit fell upon this crew and they spoke in different tongues, and all the Jews (representing over dozen nations) heard their words in their own language. Three thousand people were saved and baptized, and from that point on we have struggled!

The apostles had to figure out a way to organize this new body of believers. They were not prepared for such an overwhelming influx into their midst. And there was no time to rest because new believer kept joining the group on a daily basis (Acts 2:47). People kept getting healed, saved, delivered, and baptized (Acts 3-6). Persecution came against the church (due to fear and jealousy, sound familiar?) but the body did not divide. Every need within the body is being met by the body. (The energy and momentum had to be so intense at this time.)

The church nearly crumbled when the body began to grumble and complain about one another, but this attack was also survived as the apostles developed a strategy to overcome the issue. The first "committee" was formed, and it was tasked with the assignment of overseeing the food distribution for all the believers (a huge task for sure). After this issue was taken care of the church continued to advance and the "number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith. (Acts 6:7)"

I will stop here for today. The church is just moments away from being broken for the first time. The persecution that is to come will cause the church to scatter throughout Judea and Samaria. The church is about to go underground.

The events of Acts 2-7 are what many reference when they long for true church like it was with the first church. I am not sure these same people long for the events of Acts 8 as well, but I believe the persecution that came in Acts 8 is what really caused the church to grow and become grounded.

I end with the question I asked earlier, "If we forget the last two thousand years and only use the Bible as our source for this search for true church, what will we end up with?" What form did this first church take? What were the key elements? Are there systems, structures, guidelines, commandments about church for us to implement in our churches?

Until next timegrab a nice bottle of wine and happy studying!

Personal Update

Thu, 4 May 2006 00:00:00 GMT

Just in case anyone was wondering I am still alive. This week of work is killing me, and at the same time I am processing so much stuff in regards to church. I will post again by the end of the weekend, but until then please continue to check out the comment section, and feel free to respond to others there.

Until then, feast your eyes on the picture here and lust after the amazing food on that plate. I will soon return with some word food for your consumption...ahhhhhhhh that is so cheesy (did I just bring up food again........ahhhhhhh stop the madness.)

Peace

First Presb and other thoughts...

Mon, 1 May 2006 00:00:00 GMT

Disclaimer: Please feel free to comment on these blogs as you feel led to do so. Your personal experience and insight is welcomed and valuable. You can share personal things, comment on something I write, or comment on what others have written. Please be gracious when addressing others that have chosen to comment on this blog, but do feel free to ask questions, probe, or encourage. Also, do not feel as if you have to have new insight about church or that your thoughts will be critiqued by a group of intellectuals sitting in a dark corner of a coffee shop somewhere. You can join in the debates or mark you comments as Not for Further Comment, in which case it means your comments are off limits from what others may want to say. All are welcome!

Hindsight: There is alot of discussion going on in response to the last entry "am i destined to be a perpetual pilgrim". Please feel free to continue commenting there, and also check out the responses of others to people's comments.

New Material: I attended First Presbytarian in Gainesville this weekend. I did my normal critique, but I am sure you can guess what I observed so I will save you all from the play by play. There were a few standout things that I would like to note though.

1. This was the first church that I was intentionally welcomed at.
2. The "pastor" was overly passionate about emphasizing the theology of his church through out the entire service. I believe this was because the focal point of the service was baptism, and this is an issue that has controversy. He wanted all his congregants to rest assurred that they are part of the majority of believers that believe in infant baptism, and that a child could still go to heaven if they were not baptized but God would not have the same relationship with that child (I about flipped out at this point and started throwing hymnals and swearing, but I did still pay my entry fee of $1.00 in the offering plate, as is my tradition these days).
3. My main critique of something physical is that the sanctuary was too red and set up really poorly so seating was not maximized. That may be the idea though...make the church feel fuller than it is.

As I put time into studying some of the deeper stuff in this journey (church history and theology) I want to invite you to stay with me. There are other issues to be discussed as well: should the church be socially relevant? Is the church here to only serve the needs of Christians? If all Christians died and there was no church left and then a Bible was found do you think the readers of that Bible would form a church the way it exists now?

It is important in your church journey, especially if you are in a season of disallusionment, that you:
1. Identify how you got there?
2. Figure out what it is that is really bothering you.
3. Feel free to ask the questions you need to ask (check out my blog on "when you attack the institution you attack history" as well).
4. Try to find some fellow believers to journey with.
5. Start dreaming about what you would like out of church fellowship and about what you would like to contribute to a church fellowship.
6. Ask the Lord to guide you in your process...

I do not think we should redesign church based on format or style. I believe this is much of what the Emmergent thinkers are doing these days. They give people room to ask and then offer hope based on redesign (this is not across the board, more so a general relection) of style and format. There are deeper questions to be answered along the way. I hope to do that.

Rest well this evening.

Am I destined to be a "Perpetual Pilgrim"

Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:00:00 GMT

In Hindsight
I encourage everyone to check into the comments posted in all blogs. The comments posted over the last few days in regards to the "Is this really coming from Ben Messner?" blog are really interesting. There is also some great discussion still going on in regards to the "When you attack the institution you attack history" blog.

New Material
I stated in my previous blog that I felt like I had turned a corner. The reality is that upon turning this corner I realized that my church journey has a trillion miles left to be traveled. I thought I was nearing an end, but rather I found I was at the end of an old beginning. Anyway, so hear I go

I feel like there are 4 different journeys (okay, there are probably more) represented in the area of church (some are represented in those commenting on this blog). First, there are those who have their church journey figured out (by this I mean they have found a "church home") and their theology intact. I believe that Tom and Rabbi Matt are in this category (check out the comment sections to find out what these 2 deep thinkers have enriched the blog).

Second, there are those who have their church journey pretty much figured out (maybe I can use the phrase "less lost" than the others) but are unsure of their theologies of church related issues. Basically this group has found something that works for them and that is satisfactory. They do not feel the need to figure out the church as a larger concept. Church is only a practical aspect of life and not so much of a philosophical debate.

Third, there are those who are lost in their church journey but have their theology worked out (which does not mean they have correct theology but they do know what they believe and this was worked out without the guide of the church and often in reaction to a church with a terminal illness). Those in this group may find it tough to enter a church due to much of their theology. Many in this group are very willing to enter discussion on the church in philosophical terms but shy away from discussing it in terms of the heart.

Fourth, there are those who are lost in their church journey and lost in their theology of church as well. I feel like I am in this category most of the time. As I work through what I am thinking and processing and also through the questions/comments that many of you have given to me, I now realize that there is the church of theology/philosophy and the practical church that simply "works for me."

Some of the blogging that I have done relates to the philosophical questions of church (where did it all go wrong; should there be one united church; what did God really have in mind). I realize that a lot of my frustration comes from experiences in single churches that I have personally gone through or the experiences that friends/others have gone through. I know that these experiences have built my strong opinions about church, and the fact that so many others have confirmed them shows that there is a problem with church. I also realize that in painting the picture of a church that I would like to be a part of (see "Is this really coming from Ben Messner?"), I only described a church that "fixes" the church in practice. My painting does not address the theologies/philosophies/worldviews that have led my generation to lose belief in the church in practice and the church as a whole.

As I read Paul Johnson's, A History of the American People, I am reminded that history must be taken into account as I walk my church journey. By this I mean my own young history and the history of the church since Jesus Christ and general history. Also, I believe that it is more holistic to walk the path that not only looks for a church that works in practice, but also works in theology/worldview as well. I do not believe that one element can be elevated above the other, nor should they be separated. If one only looks for a church that works in practice they will always be disappointed as this church will fall apart and be rebuilt as people that make it work come and go. The church in practice is always more bearable if one is involved in the making of life in that church. If one only looks for a church that fits the theological beliefs they hold to he/she will likely be lacking in a church of healthy practice (fellowship and worship and outreach). I say at this point that I do advocate joining a church that you view as theologically incorrect just to be a part of a church in practice (and it is obviously argued that such a church cannot be found: theologically incorrect but healthy in practice).

I do believe that a church healthy in practice and strong in theology/worldview/philosophy can exist within several denominations or independent of denomination. I believe it must be part of a greater accountable fellowship though, whether this is found in denomination or friendship does not matter to me. At the same time I recognize that I have not really studied this opinion and I am sure that some of my catholic commenters will disagree.

One critical element that I need to work out is the concept of apostolic succession. This is critical in my "protest" of the Catholic Church (which is not really a protest of theology as I have not studied the theology until now but more so an act of finding what worked for me elsewherethen getting frustrated because not even that worked). I believe in prophecy and that people have the gift of being apostles now. So that is where I am going in my thinking now.

My encouragement to those in this church journey: figure out the elements of your church and then figure out what you need to do to become part of church that is healthy in practice and healthy in theology. Do not shy away from theology because it impacts your practice more than you realize. Finally, do not allow church to become elevated above personal relationship with Jesus Christ through his Holy Spirit.

Father Godlead me and those along with me.

Is this really coming from Ben Messner?

Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:00:00 GMT

The body is one but made of many parts. The majority of believers buy into this scriptural truth, and yet we forget that bodies only function well when all the parts are connected and function together. I believe this is the best argument for why I should choose into a church. I need to join my body part with the other parts so that we can unite the body under the headship of Christ.

As I connect with body I am able to see more clearly a picture of Christ. I see the amazing things he is doing through the hands, and how amazing the hand is even when it is not producing or creating something. I see the feet and their purpose in the body and their rugged toughness that keeps the church moving. If the hands and feet of the body refuse to connect with the rest of the body then the body can become stale and non-productive.

I am part of the crowd that longs to experience God, and by experience I mean truly encounter Him. I believe that a church gathering allows for a believer to possibly experience God on 3 levels: the Word (through the presentation of scripture- the daily bread), the Worship (encountering his glory and direct presence through the manifestation of his Spirit), and the fellowship of believers (hey, we are created in his image and he is with us always so hopefully we can find him within us).

[I believe that a Catholic would also add they directly experience Christ through the Eucharist which can only happen at church and that operates in the apostolic succession.]

I believe that healthy church must encourage "members" to have a strong personal relationship with God. This may seem obvious, but I feel like many church goers have a relationship with their church that is more important than their relationship with God. A commenter on another blog even said the there is an unhealthy dependence between the pastor and the congregation many times. A healthy church should grow, reproduce, and constantly be starting over because it is continually sending members out into the world.

I think that I left church because someone finally told me that I should expect something more out of church, and that lifeless attendance did not really impress God. I should not go to church just so others see me at church. Nor should I go to or choose into church just because I always have gone to church. What do you do on Sundays? You go to church!

This revelation led me to become an angry "new type of Protestant" because now I was even protesting the Protestant Church. I found myself saying to the church, "Hey, you are not what you proclaim to be and therefore I will not subject myself to this lie. I need something authentic." I turned my back on the Bride and left.

It is 5 years later, and I am ready to really consider joining church again. My wife has been here for about 6 months. As usual she is the trendsetter in this relationship and I am fumbling around trying to catch up to her. I love that.

I said I would answer what form of church I would be part of since I believe in church. (At this point I am not protesting the form of Catholic Church, but I also have not taken time yet to think through the issues that causes a separation in the first place. I would say at this point that my main thing is a that I want a church that is not so focused on this one man at the front and his prayers and so on. I want to try something else first. I believe there are apostles outside of the succession within the C Church.)

Number of attendees, type of building (or no building), and style are not important anymore. (Actually style is sort of important but I hope to not judge church by style any longer.) Again, Church to me is the following:

A place of Freedom that embraces and calls out all the spiritual gifts for all people
Accountable community
Intentional fellowship that does not segregate on basis of race, ethnicity, economic status, style, or sin issue (all are welcome if they are truly searching and willing to change if they encounter truth that leads them to do so)
A place to experience/encounter God on multi-levels (Word/Worship/Body)
A body that is moving forward; missional

It would be nice if church was also a place of:

Creative expression
A focus on social justice
Dancing
Community gathering beyond the church service (art studio; theater; workshop; bookshop; coffee shop; dance studio; recording studio; safe place for the nomad; shelter for the abused and homeless; restaurant; a place of beauty that is so stunning it causes silence)

I think many will agree and would say that if I find such a place to please invite you because you will drop everything to be a part of something like this. Should we gather in a random place somewhere and give this a try? Would bureaucracy and petty disputes derail us? Would we be another embarrassing attempt to try something different? Maybe the answer is yes, but if so we can all rest confident that the Catholic church which has stood the test of time will still be there waiting to welcome us with open arms.

My final thought for today is really more of a confessionI am turning my search so that it leads me to a church again. If you are one that is helping others search, please also keep in the end in mind that body needs to unite. I don't want to just be a foot flopping down the sidewalk.

If the type of "church" that I describe above really existed (it probably does) would you move to a place just to be a part of such a thing (would you want to help start such a thing)? Would you move for a church rather than moving for jobs, schools, or family? Remember to not be excited about the style or concept of such a church but rather that it would be a place to encounter God in a fresh way. Let me know.

Baby Steps toward a unified Body...is it really possible?

Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:00:00 GMT

I realize that my desire to share my personal journey of my church experiences and views has really turned into something quite other. I figured that I would lament, moan, weep, knash some teeth (very old testament), make a few funny jokes (I used up all my material--Seth Barnes--in my first blog) criticize, and cause some controversy (in the conservative right that has not allowed a new thought in 50 years). The reaction and incredible comments of those who have taken the time to share has turned this blog journey in a completely different direction.

A quick overview of those who comment: a few devout Roman Catholics, a mission agency president, a standout college student, a few people just working and doing life, a Vineyard pastor, a non-denominational pastor, a wife of church planter, a pastor's kid, a Messianic Jew, a clerk for a federal judge, a missionary in the DR, and more. You have quickly made this blog the most interesting and diverse blog in all of the myadventures.org blogs, including Seth Barnes. I want to say thank you to the fansyou made this happen.

A quick overview of the reactions of those who comment

1. Hey, I love church and this is why

2. This is my experienceit has been tough, but worth it

3. I support you Ben and love what you say

4. I am with you in your struggle

5. You will never find what you are looking for in the institutional church

6. You need to define your use of the word church

7. Have you considered the Catholic church

8. The Messianic approach

The last two comments have really made the blog interesting, because rather than the anticipated gathering of post-modern searching young people who only ask questions and struggle to define what they want out of church anyway, there has been an amazing gathering of very articulate and wise people. Please do not be afraid to join in this search and offer you comments on what I say or on what others are saying. The ground rules are: be respectful to whom you are addressing and show reverence to the Bride. The material in the comment section is just as interesting as and actually more insightful than the blogs I post, so make sure you read through those as well.

My thought for the day is that we need to keep taking baby steps toward unity in the body. The question I am asking myself is "do I see the church as God's instrument to unify the body and advance his Kingdom?" I believe my answer isyes, so this leads to my second question "what form of church will I submit myself to and how much of myself will I give to this church?" I will blog about the answer to this question tomorrow. And then a seperate track all together for consideration is the whole question of the Catholic Church and how that fits into your search.

I am trying to say that my search now must address not just what is church and what is my issue with church, but also why am I not part of the Catholic Church. IF I am going to be a "Protestant", I need to be able to say why I am protesting the catholic form of church. Rabbi Matt may also want me to consider why I am not searching for authentic church in the messianic tradition.

Is it possible that through the efforts of all who contribute here that we could become the bridge between those who have rejected church and those who love church, between those who are lost on a search and those who have found a home, between the 1st church of Acts and the modern day church?

How would you answer these questions? I look forward to hearing from you.

When You attack the Institution you attack History!

Sun, 23 Apr 2006 00:00:00 GMT

As I sat within the 4 walls of St. Michaels Roman Catholic Church this morning a rather penetrating thought occurred to me--when I say things that attack the institution of church there are millions of people around the world the world that take that as a direct attack on their faith and God. It dawned on me today that this catholic church sees itself as part of the historical catholic church which I see myself as part of, but they stayed connected to all their history after the break of Martin Luther. There have been dozens of battles fought and lives sacrificied to protect what I so easily attack and slander.

I never really saw myself as disconnected from this history until today. As I studied key people and events in the development of the church (granted from a non-Catholic but still Christian perspective) I believed this history to be my history--for better or for worse (my teachers and text books were faithful to point out the "for worse" more often than the "for better"). My historical perspective never allowed me to come to a place of belief in the Pope and his Holy Church that the people sitting around me definitely seemed to believe today.

I am not a fan of using numbers to talk up an religious group/movement/institution since they are not an accurate testimony to what really matters: the authentic position of heart toward the one true God. A South African organization did a study one year of all the crusade organizations that ministered in Mozambique throughout that year and they found that according to the numbers published by the all the organizations total population of the country had been saved 6 times over. I spoke with a missionary kid from Mozambique today and she informed me that her town is definitely still 80% Muslim. So numbers break down...obviously.

My point here is that since Catholics claim a 1 billion person following and do see themselves as the one church that is higher than other Christian fellowships I suddenly felt very lonely. It was an interesting feeling for me to not be welcomed into the sharing of the bread and body of Christ in a church (if I am wrong here please some one tell me).  Am I allowed to claim church history that relates to what was the catholic church if I am not a present day catholic?

The Mass was well attended and ethnically diverse. I found it hard to settle down into the service because there were so many crying babies and a general muttering of quite conversations throughout much of the service (I am sure these distractions were also present at the church I attended last week, but the music and speaking was turned up so loud I went deaf just a few minutes into the service).  The service started promptly at 11:00 AM and proceeded for just over an hour. I sat in the back and no one talked to me until the part of the service where you turn and say "peace be with you" to a pew neighbor.

The priest did a nice job of making everyone feel welcomed.  He was actually the most casual priest I have ever seen in a catholic church. The place in the service where the priest gave his "talk" was a rather confusing (not trying to be a jerk) discourse on the beatitudes and why this service that follows the Easter service is special. He gave some quotes from some lady and from Pope John Paul II.  The singing was nice and the movement during the service is a welcome change from the normal take your seat and stay there type of service I normally have participated in. I found myself wanting more from this part of the service, but I also realized that in contrast to other churches I have been in this aspect of the Mass is not nearly as central as it is to the other churches. Every element of the Mass had importance.

I realize that I need to process further my feelings of exclusion that I experienced today at Mass. I now wonder if when a catholic person says to me "I will pray for you" if they actually are worried for my soul and eternal destination? I will take all the prayers I can get. I know I need them, but I did not know until now I was seen as different. I know that I am often exclusive and many a church excludes those with "issues" or obvious sins...(the old favorites of smoking, drinking, immorality). But there was this was an exclusivity that was between Christians.

Here is the final thought for today: I realize now that my frustration is not directed toward the concept of church or the instituation of the historical church; rather it is directed toward a lack in the bride that has been represented by various churches I have attended over the years. I confess that every lack I see in the bride is also represented within my own heart and body.

For every time I have been frustrated with weak or irrelevant teaching/preaching there has been a time that I either gave a sermon that was weak or irrelevant or that I was unteachable.

For every time I have been frustrated with lifeless worship or lack of reverence for God there has been a time where my own fabricated reverence was all two obvious.

For every time I have been frustrated by a lack in fellowship or attempts at community within a church there has been a time that I chose not to love my brother or sister or would not allow them to love me.   I have worn my own share of MASKS.

For every time I have been frustrated with the lack of movement toward a purpose beyond the church building itself there has been a time that I was all to willing to sit on my couch and stare at a tv screen and forget the needs of the world. I too often believe that I am a global hero the church should follow because I gave one meager year of my life to Africa.

For every time...there has been a time that I...

Please remember to share about your service and feel free to comment on my thoughts.

It's Sunday Again...tell me about it.

Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:00:00 GMT

It's that time of the week again where we all put on our best and go of to church. All of my messianic friends are already finished with their weekly ritual as Saturday remains their Sabbath. Some of the postmodern crowd and others have taken in a Saturday service already and that leaves the rest of us with 8:00-12:00 as our options for tomorrow.

Here is my question for you all to interact with tonight and tomorrow? In 1 sentence describe your church service and what happened on this specific visit. Then in another sentence or two answer this question: did you get what you were looking for? If not, why not? If so, how did this happen?

Tomorrow I am visiting St. Michaels Catholic Church. I look will blog later and I hope to have you comment on your experience as well. I will also fill you in on the next piece of my search and what I am currently thinking about my dance with the church.

For tonight I will fill you in on my favorite memory of church (which for me is the gathering of followers of Jesus and non-believers for any of the following: intentional fellowship, sharing of the Word, spurring one another onto love and good deed, worship of some form, and communion; depending on the focus of the gathering and those in attendance the agenda and activity will change). Janeen and I had a Wednesday night community gathering when we lived in Nyack. Conservative Christians and pot-smoking liberals all gathered at our apartment for food (everyone brought something to share but the best night was the one we all brought fruit and vegetables and juiced like 5 gallons of fresh juice and drank until our bellies were bloated) and conversation. It was not uncommon for a worship leader to be listening to a townie talk about her recent confusion at grocery store because she was on such a killer high or for there to be an academic discussion in another corner of the room or someone getting prayer in another corner or people just kicking back and having a good time. Those who really wanted personal conversation from us would stick around until others had left. The agenda was not overtly spiritual and nothing was forced, but nothing was hidden either. This was not the place I took in my spiritual food for the week but the body of Christ gathering to love each other and those outside the body was sweet worship and communion for me.

Sleep well brethren.

I heard voices in My Head while I prayed...

Wed, 19 Apr 2006 00:00:00 GMT

In his book, The Soul of Politics, Jim Wallis says, "The things we see, hear, taste, smell, and touch each day determine our view of the world. More than things we've read or the ideas we've heard, it is our vantage point that most affects our social and political perspectives." I believe that Wallis could also add spiritual or religious perspective to this sentence as well. It is our experience with church that forms our perspectives and opinions of the Bride. The reality for many is that church has been downright abusive. To make my point here are some examples:

One friend had rumors flying around her church that she was a lesbian.
One friend was raped by the worship pastor of the church.
One friend's dad was fired from a church because the church started monitoring his tithing on a weekly basis and they believed he should put more money in the church rather than into the support of missionary friends.

The flipside is that the Bride has also performed beautifully so many times. She often has sheltered the widow and orphan, and been a place of sanctuary for the traveler. The Bride has been used by God to bring healing to devastated individuals and communities. The reaction of the church to Hurricane Katrina is awesome. Americans operate under the mentality to never be satisfied, and I often hear myself saying, "It could be better" or "There must be something more than this." I wonder if the standard that many of us use to measure the quality or effectiveness of the church is one that can ever be satisfied or met.

I believe we all need to be very careful about the way we go about addressing the Bride. I believe that spacious places must be created for all to search out one's relationship with the church and to learn how to dance with her, but as a community of faith we must "Consider (or think of ways) that we can spur one another onto love and good deeds" in this searching process.

Today, as I was praying, I realized my physical position probably lacked reverence for God. I was leaning back in my chair, arms crossed over my chest, and feet up on the table. Suddenly this side dialogue began to bounce around within my head. One voice said, "God wouldn't care. He is chill and just wants you to spend time with him." Another voice said, "You are speaking to and listening for the voice of the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE. Get out of that chair and put your face on the floor!" And there was my own inner voice wondering what God thought of this whole dialogue taking place during my prayer time. (This was my 2^nd prayer time of the day, and during the other one I had fallen asleep while trying to pray for my family members (no offense brothers). I was not off to a good start and this was a day that I needed to make some massive decisions regarding issues at work.)

My search has been marked by anger, frustration, tears, joy, healing, pain, confusion, swearing, apathy, avoidance, beauty, support, and more. My voice is one that people tuned into for advice and leadership at different seasons in my life. I realize that while people respect my honesty and authenticity (I really struggle with hypocrisy and so the obvious contradiction that can be found in the church is both embarrassing and frustrating) I want to continue my search with a sense of reverence for the Bride. Reverence means deep respect for someone or something. It comes from the Latin word reverentia which is from revereri which is "to stand in awe of." Though I can rarely understand why God chose to trust the formation and development of the church into our hands, I do understand that we are his Bride and the position of my heart must be one of reverence.

This does not mean that I cannot pray while leaning back in a chair or that I cannot make strong statements of critique about the church, but it does serve as a reminder that I should always search my heart.

I want my searching to produce something original and transforming, but more than finding my own original idea (Russel Crowe and A Beautiful Mind concept) I want "to be the change I long to see happen in the world." Yesterday I spewed forth frustration and today I raise my beer in salute to the Bride. As I continue to unpack what could be different in what we have created the church to be I ask that you stay with me and continue to interact with each other in the comment section. I not only want you to journey with me and give support and feedback, but I also want you to become a community that searches together and finds some truth.
The Bottom Line is that we need to becareful what are words or signs in this case are declaring to the world while we search.

Learning to Dance with Church

Tue, 18 Apr 2006 00:00:00 GMT

The search to find authentic church for me is now 5 years old, and I am learning the best way to describe this journey is to compare it to a dance (I will exlpain at the end so stay tuned). It was during my senior at Nyack College that I realized that my poor attendance at church was caused not so much by the normal affliction of college life (overdoing it on Saturday nights) as much it was this nagging feeling that something about church was "not right and not working for me." I think that is the feeling that many of us get when we walk into an institutional churchsomething is off here. Regretfully, the "thing" that is usually off is that Jesus is no where to be found.

The reasons that Christians and non-Christians hate church are often the same: authority issues, legalism, disdain for Christians, embarrassment by how churches are unwilling to advance beyond 1950 (in case you are unfamiliar with church, you can test this last point out by attending a large majority of mid-west or southern churches if you are curious to see what Christians were singing, wearing, and talking about 50 years agoit's freaky), painful situations where the church' caused pain or let down the person or a closely related person. The list really could go on and on.

I want to say that I actually love the idea of church. I love being with Christians and worshiping and ministering to one another. People's brokenness does not bother me like it bothers some. I realize the church is broken people trying to come together for a good reason, but what often happens is their brokenness is not received or they do not know how to trust others with it so broken people do what they do bestcause brokenness in others and themselves. That is a great description of modern day church. I am up for that, but I want to describe to you my process with falling away from church first.

My process went like this:

1. Identified that something was wrong with church and that it was not working for me.

2. My crisis of being a people-pleaser was peaking at this time, and as I was experiencing freedom in Christ in this area I began to move away from all things related to expectation. Anything you should do I was trying to avoid doing. Like Brennan Manning says, "Don't should on me." I saw that I was going to church because that is what I was always told Christians were supposed to do. A good Christian should go to church. Therefore, I made the move to cut church out of my life.

3. I began to go to church only when I felt like it and the lifeless churches in proximity to the college (at the time) rarely inspired the feeling to go to church.

4. Janeen and I developed a rule that we would do our best to not travel more than 20 miles to go to church because we believed that church should be within your community. So this cut out a whole other level of church attendance because up until this point we had often journeyed up to an hour into the NYC to participate in some really vibrant churches.

5. I began to hate all things church (why only sing 3 songs; why use bulletins; why do it this way or that way; why are people fake; why does no one get saved in this church; why are there no non-Christians in this church; why do people put on the happy face once they walk through the door but at home beat each other; why are the arts and creative expression shunned in church; when did we decide that 1 person talking at 300 people for the majority of the time was a good expression of fellowship and learning for that matter), and as I sought for a vocabulary to express this feeling I realized there were several others who shared in my search. In a sense I joined the community of the disenfranchised. The authors of the emergent movement gave words to my feelings.

6. I realized that I sinned more inside a church than outside it because my attitude was so critical and closed down while at church. This gave me more reason to not attend church.

7. I began to consider church planting because my attitude was that if I hate how other people do this then I can't be a hypocrite and not doing anything about it. I need to start my church and do it the way I think is right. Thankfully, I have never followed through on this thought pattern because I believe this same style of thinking has lead to the hundreds of different denominations and unconnected churches that we have right now. (Janeen and I did sort of start a church with some friends during our first year of marriage, but it only lasted for 5 or 6 months because out of the 8 people that came 1 couple got called to KC to join a church ministry there, Janeen and I got called to Africa, another dude became a pastor at a church in Ohio, and one person moved away. I suppose that was a healthy church because we all pretty much got sent out right away, and we tithed by putting our feeble monetary gifts in a cookie jar in the bathroom.)

8. Janeen and I moved to Africa and at this point the journey was put on pause because learning to participate in African church was a whole different ballgame. I rarely was fed during the church service in Africa, but I was not critical and then I was frustrated with myself because I realized I held my own culture to a different standard. About half way through Janeen and I found an amazing church that welcomed orphans into its body and allowed them to sit in chairs even if there was not enough space for adults. The orphans were considered real members even though they could not contribute financially. This church began the restoration process for me.

9. We moved back to the USA, but this time we landed in the southern portion of the Bible belt. By this time I did not have the energy to even try looking around for a church. The structure of the building, the signs outside the church announcing the title of the weekly sermon, the name of the church were all reason enough for us not to even try. I was not ready to embrace Gainesville as my community and therefore I could not try church.

I will cut the background off here, because this is a blog and not a novel. I am sure more will come out in other entries. Here is where I stand with church today. In reality my relationship with church is much like a dance. In jr. high and high school the dances are often known to be events where the guys stand on one side and the girls on the other side of the room and they make awkward attempts to come together on slow songs and split apart once a fast song begins to play, but all the while there young hearts are screaming, "Go out and be with the one you love!" The farther in life you go you learn the dance and become more comfortable with the moves. Yet, when you get into the relationship with the one you will love for the rest of your life and dance your first married dance the moves are once again awkward and there is learning process to be walked through.

The church is the bride and I will continue to dance with her. In reality I know that I am the bride and my dance is with the groom. I will not leave this dance floor even though there is confusion, frustration, pain, and lots of boredom. Tonight I end with this story. Janeen and I visited the home of some friends who just had their first child. This couple believed, and had been told, they would not be able to have children. Just over 9 months ago I prayed over them and asked the Lord to restore life to the places inside her body that were dead. He was faithful to answer that prayer and just a few weeks later she was pregnant. This is what I hope to see happen in a church or the CHURCH someday for me- God to restore life in the places of death within the bride! Rise up dead bones and live.

Symbolism became alive at church today

Sun, 16 Apr 2006 00:00:00 GMT

For those that know me intimately or have been privileged to hear one of my discourses on church and my participation in this modern attempt to find Jesus in a group of broken people you may be shocked by what I am about to share. In fact, some of you may keel over in shock from what I am about to say. I attended church today.

I mean, come on, today is Easter , otherwise known as Resurrection Sunday, and I did something today that I have not done in months--I went to the institution occasionally known as church. The institutional church that my wife and I attended today is called Free Chapel, which is a large church located in Gainesville. As the digital clock on the massive screens counted down the remaining seconds until the service began (a necessary procedure if you are trying to get 5,000 plus to quiet down), I tried to prepare my heart and attitude for what was too come...this was my first time inside a church on a Sunday morning in months and I was not sure how I would handle the event.

11:03 the worship leader walked out to center stage with guitar in hand and fiddled with the mike for a few seconds. The selected worship team was soon to follow and the remaining members of the choir to the side took their places.

11:04 a quick media clip played advertising a student conference coming up in July with the church's Sr. pastor as one of the lead speakers.

11:05 the worship leader welcomed the congregation and took the energy level in the room from 0 to 60 in about 5 seconds. We rocked out to some awesome Easter style songs declaring that Jesus is "Alive" and "Risen" and the atmosphere was one of celebration for sure.

11:?? I lost track of the clock as I sang my heart out and then another pastor appeared at center stage and everyone sat down without being instructed and another welcome (including an analogy that related tail gating at baseball games to the tail gating at church) was given prior to the offering being taken up (Mal 3 was the text used to prompt giving just in case you were wondering).

11:?? And then the real show began and media clips detailing last week's sermon were played out over the screens. The title was seven days that changed the world. The focus of this Sunday was day six and seven and the Sr. Pastor led the attendees through a well planned and skillfully done narrative that told the story of the death and resurrection of Jesus. The narrative included: clips from The Passion of the Christ, a human drama with beat up Jesus on the cross (the make up was amazing), special music, a real lamb was used for an illustration, and then to top it all off a five hundred lb. lion was brought out on a cart to symbolize the Lion of Judah.

Janeen and I looked at each other in amazement. We had tried to see lions on 3 different occasions in South Africa and Swaziland, but never had been successful. And here in freakin GA we were introduced to a real lion. It was beautiful and sort of scary all at the same time. Even the pastor kept his distance, though the lion was chained to the cart, as he worked through his description of the Lion of Judah.

12:15 The Sr. Pastor gave a call to receive Jesus and several accepted. Evidently hundreds of others had already made this same decision in the two previous services.

12:18 The worship leader returned and children dancers appeared in the aisles and 2 ladies depicting the Marys from the Bible made their way to the tomb at center stage. They realized that Jesus was not there and they rushed to tell the others.

12:22 The others appeared and the celebration, including the lion and the lamb on stage at the same time, broke out. Three young angels were swung around over people's heads on ropes, and the music blared and the multi-media was going nuts.

12:26 The angels disappeared and the Sr. Pastor reappeared and the noise died as he brought the service to a close. He asked the question "why wouldn't you want to be part of a church like this where this happens every Sunday?" and then he playfully instructed everyone to behave like Christians in the parking lot.

12:27 the show was over and everyone split for their restaurant of choice.

It was really amazing, and at the same time led to all sorts of questions about church. Janeen and I worked through some of these on our way home, but eventually the conversation faded out because we have been down this road before. The same things that lacked before were still lacking and the condition of our hearts was still the important thing. No one asked us our names, but we were actually thankful for that...

I will pause here because I think that church will be the point of discussion for my next few blogs. Continue to tune in and invite others to join us (all thoughts and discussions are welcome) as we try to figure out what thousands of others are trying to figure out...what is the role of church in my life?

This picture illustrates my confusion in my search for true and authentic church...